AI is ushering in a new era of work, and smart employers are rethinking how to cultivate the skills their organizations need to thrive. The best leaders realize they won’t be able to do it alone, says Beth Cobert, president of affiliates and strategic partnerships at Strada Education Foundation and a former senior partner at McKinsey. On this episode of McKinsey Talks Talent, Cobert joins Brooke Weddle, Bryan Hancock, and Global Editorial Director Lucia Rahilly to discuss the kinds of cross-sector collaborations that help businesses and workers develop skills for the future—and connect education more directly to high-quality jobs.
The following transcript has been edited for clarity and length.
From classrooms to careers
Lucia Rahilly: Beth, you recently joined Strada, a foundation aimed at clearing the path between education and work, especially for folks with significant obstacles in their way. Tell us about what attracted you to Strada and its mission.
Beth Cobert: What really appealed to me was Strada’s focus on driving systems change.
Strada is a national nonprofit that connects education to opportunity, especially for those who have faced the biggest barriers. Our aspiration is that no matter where someone starts, they can see a path to a quality education and a fulfilling career—and actually get there.
At Strada, we do grants, conduct research, engage in policy and advocacy work, and make strategic investments in for-profit companies. We also have affiliates—operating nonprofits that Strada controls. My role was created to help align these nonprofits much more tightly with Strada’s mission, especially the focus on systems change.
Why systems change matters
Brooke Weddle: Talk to us about what systems-level change enables.
Beth Cobert: Let me give you an example. When I started my former role as president of the Markle Foundation, one of our programs supported career coaches who helped working adults find technical training to get to the next step in their careers. We had to do a huge amount of work by hand to determine which programs met their needs in terms of timing and flexibility—and, even more important, which programs had good outcomes. We realized we couldn’t just replicate this; maybe we could solve it for 20 people, but not 20,000.
At Strada, one of our affiliates is a new organization, a national data trust called CredLens. CredLens is creating the infrastructure to support players across the system by using verifiable data on the outcomes of different kinds of credential programs. Systems change takes investment. But soon, that same career coach will be able to say, “I can help you.” That data will be available at the touch of a button, rather than requiring a team to spend weeks or months, only to get outdated information. That can help make change sustainable for all.
Bryan Hancock: Who are the different stakeholders in this ecosystem—researchers, employers, credential-issuing organizations, students, governments?
Beth Cobert: We need all these stakeholders at the table, not just for today but for what will work as the world keeps changing. But the education-to-employment ecosystem is too often a set of individual organizations and institutions not acting in a coordinated way. I pause on “ecosystem,” because in an ecosystem there are clear ways in which things interact and connect. That’s what the best places are doing. But generally, we’ve underinvested in those connections.
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Strada has spent a lot of time looking at what works. For example, there’s a fantastic advanced-manufacturing institute in Denver, Colorado—a joint venture of Community College of Denver, Metro State University, and the University of Colorado Denver. They share a big advanced-manufacturing facility, in partnership with Lockheed Martin and other employers in the state. A student who finishes a program at Community College of Denver can transfer those credits to Metro and then access graduate programs at the University of Colorado. It’s all intertwined with employers to help build the workforce. That is a connected ecosystem.
You need connectivity between institutions, employers, local high schools. Otherwise, what you have isn’t an ecosystem—it’s just a set of institutions in the same place.
How AI is raising the stakes
Bryan Hancock: In the AI era, certain careers—say, in healthcare—may still be in demand. Others may go away: Executive assistants continue to decline. AI will also empower people to do new jobs: for instance, new career paths in entrepreneurship that wouldn’t have been as feasible before. How do you see these broader shifts in the workforce playing out, especially in entry-level roles?
Beth Cobert: The change will be broad and far reaching. We’ve got to figure out how to build experience and judgment so that people, when they skip entry roles, still have those qualities when they’re in a decision-making position. An important question becomes, “How do we change the nature of how people are taught and what they’re learning? How do we integrate learning into work and work into learning?”
Take communication between employers, whose needs are shifting, and educators, who are training workers. Without change, you risk preparing people for roles that don’t exist anymore. Educating people for new roles requires dialogue and interactions that are faster than many traditional education institutions are used to, and a higher degree of communication from employers about what’s working and what’s not.
Brooke Weddle: For some younger folks, AI may feel intuitive. Do you see early signs that they are adapting to the career choices created by AI?
Beth Cobert: We see a lot of initiative from students asking, “How do I use AI in my day-to-day tasks? How do I think about the skills I have? How do I prepare myself for different roles?” On the other hand, they’ve got to find a place to get hired. The question is, do employers recognize that these people are bringing skills they may have built in different ways?
There may be jobs for AI engineers. But for others—say, entry-level HR roles that traditionally led to quality careers—you’ve got to find a different entry point now. I don’t think we’ve solved that problem yet.
Lucia Rahilly: Certainly in the US, we’ve seen indications that recent college grads—even in software engineering, from prestigious schools—are having a harder time finding jobs than expected just a couple of years ago.1 Do you see this trend toward diminishing entry-level jobs continuing?
Beth Cobert: We definitely see some of it. And we hear about it anecdotally: A person leaves and isn’t replaced. On the other hand, it’s important to recognize that we’re in a period of high economic uncertainty. If you look at past periods, you see similar patterns. In many companies, AI is taking hold but not fully. It’s coming, but I’m not sure it’s completely here.
Lucia Rahilly: Do you see the potential for private sector investment in training rising as AI alters the skills employers need?
Beth Cobert: I’m a firm believer that investing in employees pays off for companies. I’ve seen it happen again and again. I know some employers believe that when they invest in their talent, the talent leaves. That has not been my experience.
In a world of AI, especially for incumbent workforces, the question gets even more interesting. If AI can handle some basic tasks, what you really need is judgment—knowledge of what works for your company and how you deliver value to customers. That knowledge is often embedded in the heads and hearts of your current employees. Unless you invest in them, you risk ending up with more generic, AI-driven answers and losing the added value your incumbent workers bring.
If AI can handle some basic tasks, what you really need is judgment—knowledge of what works for your company and how you deliver value to customers.
Brooke Weddle: We talk to many CHROs [chief human resource officers], and they’re constantly thinking about the upskilling and reskilling challenge. How would you advise them?
Beth Cobert: It’s incredibly important to think about partnerships and a systematic response. Most companies in America don’t have thousands of employees or an HR department that can focus on learning and development. There are a lot of companies out there that understand the potential but need ways forward.
There’s an enormous opportunity between organizations and local education institutions to support that transformation. For instance, Strada sponsored work in San Diego with MiraCosta College to help build talent for the biotech industry. A bunch of fast-growing companies needed people to work in their labs but weren’t finding them. They created a shared lab facility on campus, contributed folks to help teach courses, and provided work-based learning opportunities. Their program is graduating students, and over 90 percent of them are moving into quality jobs they would never have had otherwise. There are lots of opportunities like that, and we need those kinds of partnerships to make this work at scale across the country.
What skills still matter?
Lucia Rahilly: Beth, as you think about the skills that will be valuable for students in the future, do you see a place for cultivating less technical capabilities—such as critical reasoning or problem solving—that complement AI? Or is the link to employment too indirect for students looking for a clear, stable pathway into the labor force?
Beth Cobert: I’ve always believed in foundational skills. You have to learn to be facile with AI, but many people are not going to be AI engineers. First, there aren’t enough of those jobs. And second, that’s not what everybody is suited for. Relationship building, communication, and the ability to bring people together to get things done—those skills have been valuable for decades and will remain valuable. The challenge is how to demonstrate that you’re good at them and prove you’re the person who gets things done.
When we think about great folks on our teams—junior colleagues we’ve worked with—the attribute that always stands out is, “Is this someone who makes things happen in a reliable and consistent way?” They do that not just by building a great spreadsheet or writing a good paragraph but by figuring out how to corral people to do something differently.
When we think about great folks on our teams—junior colleagues we’ve worked with—the attribute that always stands out is, “Is this someone who makes things happen in a reliable and consistent way?”
What we need is a better way to help people learn and value those skills. We also need ways to look for evidence that someone is the kind of person who gets things done. Those people will be valuable—and they’ll be using AI to make it happen.
Brooke Weddle: That really resonates with me. I’m working with multiple organizations right now where the CEO is saying, “We need a different kind of leader.” Yes, there needs to be some minimum level of AI proficiency across the organization, including in the C-suite. But leaders also need to show up differently. They need to be better change leaders. They need to be better storytellers, because there’s a lot of fear right now. Storytelling can inspire and excite people in ways that drive outcomes—not just productivity but also higher engagement. Adaptability and continuous learning are other attributes I’m hearing a lot about. Is that consistent with what you’re hearing?
Beth Cobert: We do hear a lot about that from employers. The challenge is how to find that person. There’s a little too much “I know it when I see it,” too much looking for someone with a background just like theirs. But you can find evidence of what makes people effective. Part of the work is to help individuals articulate when they’ve done it, how they did it, and what happened.
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Take someone who has managed to get their child to and from daycare every day, hold down a job, and figure out how to get enough childcare to go to class three nights a week and graduate. The traditional image of the college student isn’t always the right one. Sometimes it’s a single parent holding down two jobs and a side gig. That is someone who gets stuff done. But we’ve got to view those experiences as demonstrations of resourcefulness and creativity.
Bryan Hancock: What’s the future of skills-based hiring in this changing world?
Beth Cobert: I continue to be a deep believer in skills-based hiring. My favorite story about skills-based hiring involves a lens manufacturer that Markle worked with. It had complex machines and kept trying to hire engineers to run them. And it had a long list of requirements—so complex that the only person who could fill them already worked there.
That’s what skills-based hiring is—and promotion too. It’s knowing what skills are needed and looking for evidence of them from real experience, not just from a credential.
One day, the CEO got into a conversation with a sushi chef and hired him to operate the machine. It turned out what the company needed was someone with incredible attention to detail, strong manual dexterity, and the patience to do the same task over and over. It also needed someone who didn’t mind spending their whole day operating a machine without talking to 25 people. The CEO then ended up hiring a whole group of people from the food prep industry, and later a bunch of manicurists—because they had the right transferrable skills. You didn’t necessarily need an engineer.
That’s what skills-based hiring is—and promotion too. It’s knowing what skills are needed and looking for evidence of them from real experience, not just from a credential.
What leaders need to get right—and where to start
Lucia Rahilly: Beth, you’ve spent your career helping organizations think differently about talent. What do you see as the most important thing employers need to get right? And is there anything you see employers overlooking?
Beth Cobert: First, be clear about what you really need—know the skills and capabilities required. Second, broaden your aperture to find talent. If you say, “I can’t find this,” my response is, “You haven’t looked hard enough. Look in a different spot.” And third, recognize the talent and potential of the people you already have. I’ve continually seen that when you give people opportunities to step up, they can do it—if you invest in them and show you have confidence in them.
There’s a big opportunity here. The best employers ask what they can do to help people get to different places. It’s a partnership between employer and employee, with a joint goal. A successful career pays off for everybody, but both sides have to make that investment.
Brooke Weddle: Suppose an organization needs to transform its approach, looking ahead to the skills and roles it will need one, three, five years out. Practically speaking, how would you start?
Beth Cobert: Find a place where you have a real need and willing leadership and get some early wins. Then other people start thinking, “I want a little of that.” Whether in talent management or other kinds of innovation, there’s nothing like seeing success to get people excited. You can get through to about three-quarters of the organization that way. Then there are the folks who are resistant. At that point, you can tell them what to do, because you’ve already proven it. But trying to change the disbelievers is never a good strategy. Build a coalition of the willing, and others will follow.
Trying to change the disbelievers is never a good strategy. Build a coalition of the willing, and others will follow.
Lucia Rahilly: Beyond AI, are there any other trends in today’s labor market that are important to highlight?
Beth Cobert: When I think about the US labor market, I do think about AI, but there are other things we need to pay attention to.
One is changing demographics. There are fewer 18-to-22- or 24-year-olds, so fewer people are entering the workforce. We also have lower immigration levels. With new needs emerging, we need to figure out how to enable workers to do more.
Meanwhile, the workforce is asking, “What is my relationship with this employer? What is it going to invest in me? And what should I invest in it?” That relationship has become more transactional over time, and we need to address that.
Finally, we need to focus on creating quality jobs. Many of the jobs that are staying—certainly in the care economy—are important jobs where human skills matter. But many of those jobs don’t pay well. If we’re going to attract talent, we have to offer wages that will bring people in and keep them there.
Lucia Rahilly: Beth, there’s a lot of toggling between promise and fear when it comes to AI and employment. Are you optimistic about the future of work, and if so, why?
I believe in people, in their potential, and in the need to unleash that potential.
Beth Cobert: I see examples around the country of this working in ways that can scale. I’m optimistic because I saw students and faculty at Pueblo Community College—when I was there for a Colorado Workforce Development Council meeting—talking about the amazing things they’re doing to open up healthcare careers so individuals can serve their neighbors and have great opportunities.
I’m optimistic because I spent lunch with 12 summer interns at Strada from all sorts of schools—from community colleges to elite research institutions—talking about what they’re doing. They were amazing.
I believe in people, in their potential, and in the need to unleash that potential. There are real concerns, no doubt. But when I meet people and see what they’re doing, I think, “Wow. They pulled that off. Why can’t we do that more?”
