While Asia’s economy is vibrant and diverse, the founder-CEOs who fuel so much of the region’s growth hold surprisingly much in common. A new McKinsey book, Shapers and Founders: The Untold Stories of Asia’s Extraordinary Owner-CEOs, explores what has fueled their success, and what sets these owner-CEOs apart.
In this episode of the McKinsey Future of Asia Podcast series, Jennifer Chiang talks to one of the authors of the book, Joydeep Sengupta. An edited version of the conversation follows.
Jennifer Chiang: Let me start with a big question. Which insights did you find the most remarkable?
Joydeep Sengupta: It’s difficult to answer because there are many new and exciting things that came from the interviews. First, just trying to understand who these founders are. Their behaviors and mindsets were very interesting, no doubt, but it was who they are and the traits they demonstrate that were more interesting for me. Things like their ability to hold many contradictory thoughts at the same time, and yet, with a great degree of equanimity and calmness.
Then, it’s incredible how much energy these people have. It’s so infectious. If you think about their curiosity and learning mindset, they’re continuously learning, looking for new ideas, and seeking out things they don’t know. Their humility was quite extraordinary, as well as their decisiveness. Once they’ve done the research, they are able to make a decision and move forward. Finally, it was the relationships they value and hold. Understanding what shapes these individuals was very exciting and interesting to learn from.
Jennifer Chiang: I had the privilege of being part of some of these interviews. And the one thing that really struck me was the childhood experiences and the different histories and philosophies of both East and West. What are some of the anecdotes and childhood stories that really stood out for you?
Joydeep Sengupta: It was intriguing to find out what made them develop these traits. The first is their philosophy, ingrained in their culture. These are 2,000- to 2,500-year-old philosophies and we saw that consistently across markets: in China, whether it was Confucianism or Daoism; in India, whether it was through the Bhagavad Gita or the Arthashastra. We saw it in the Buddhist culture in Thailand, in Japan, in Korea. We could see it pretty much across markets—ways of operating, of behaving, and the value of family and of the state.
The second aspect we always talk about is that these founders display the extraordinary quality of having a hunger to do good—not just for themselves, but for their countries and the environments in which they operate—and be successful at it. We discovered a lot of that was driven by the fact that they come from countries that went through either occupation or war when there was a real scarcity of money and resources. I think this scarcity mindset created their extraordinary drive and hunger. But that was not all. What I find equally interesting is their humility in saying it was because of their [cultural] philosophy.
Apart from their hunger, they knew there was a lot to learn from Western management practices. All of them—whether they were educated overseas or not been overseas, or whether they had partnerships with international companies—cultivated a learning mindset across markets. So, it is about the combination of philosophy, history, and learning from international practices that, in my view, created many of these traits, which is fascinating.
Jennifer Chiang: What also struck me was their sense of gratitude. I think that stems a little bit from their Asian philosophy. For example, I think Suphachai Chearavanont from CP Group explicitly mentions that sense of gratitude to want to give back to society, echoing what you were saying about the big mission builders.
Joydeep Sengupta: Jeffrey Li of GL Capital talks about the cultural revolution and how that shaped a whole generation. He was the first generation to go abroad. Or, when he talks about his partnerships with Goldman Sachs and Ford Credit, which helped him to understand how international companies are set up, run, and managed. You could see glimpses of that in many of these interviewees. What makes them so successful is the ability to marry East and West. And I think that’s unique.
Jennifer Chiang: Now I want to switch to the topic of talent, because, in my view, one of the fascinating ideas from the book is how these founders think about talent quite differently. What are some of the key differentiating mindsets regarding talent, and exactly how they build teams? The idea of the “star team,” for example?
Joydeep Sengupta: For me, at least, a few things stood out. One is that they’re operating in an environment where talent is scarce. Yet, there is a fundamental belief in the potential of any individual—for example, in Anand Mahindra’s case, his personal assistant. Or as Suphachai says: “Rotate, rotate, rotate.” And the idea that a person doesn’t fail because he or she has failed in a particular job, but that there is a whole lifespan within which that person could succeed. It is about this notion of trying to find the best in every individual, and providing them with a path to success. I think that’s a very interesting talent management philosophy that many companies could learn from.
The other aspect is how much time they spend on hiring particular people for critical roles. It’s not a resume-based or technical interview; they are really trying to test for character. How are you going to operate in times of stress? Are you going to be truthful and honest? What are your values? Does it sync with the company’s values? Hiring for character, rotating people, and giving them opportunities to grow and develop—those are very interesting findings.
Jennifer Chiang: Another aspect is how these founders balance deep loyalty with the need to refresh talent in the core team as the company grows and its needs shift?
Joydeep Sengupta: They demonstrate so many different practices, but, for me, the core is two different categories of people. There is a notion of having mercenaries and missionaries. The missionaries are going to build a company with you. But you also need technically qualified, capable people from time to time for certain projects or periods when they’re willing to hire the best, no matter what it costs and no matter what it takes to get them in. The mix of these two different categories is what I found quite interesting.
Another point which struck me is how much they’re willing to invest in people. Even when they hire the best talent from outside, they’re also investing in building sufficient local talent.
Jennifer Chiang: This book is about founders in Asia, but it’s applicable to all global leaders. What are your biggest takeaways for a global leader reading this book?
Joydeep Sengupta: There are a couple of important things. One is having an owner mindset, no matter whether you have been there for three, five, or seven years—starting with the notion that this is “my company” and being able to think like an owner. The other aspect I find important, and see so many people struggle with, is the idea of contradictory thoughts. I think there’s a lot to learn about how to balance short-term and long-term decisions: How to take bets while managing the risk? How to think about talent differently? It’s not about hiring and firing, but about cultivating, rotating, and trying to find the best in people.
It is also about how to think about innovation differently. It’s not just about the big-bang innovations, but about getting up every day and striving to become better than the previous day. There are many such useful lessons, not just for founders, but for any business leader anywhere in the world.
Jennifer Chiang: We spent more than a year creating this book. How did the research and interviews change your own leadership style?
Joydeep Sengupta: It’s had a profound impact on my own thinking, and, to some extent, on how I lead. For example, the notion of innovation: not waiting for something big to happen but making every day better. Whether in any initiative I lead, or in the way I serve clients, or how I deal with my colleagues—what are you doing better today than yesterday?
Another aspect is their approach to talent and really thinking hard about it. We often talk about a strengths-based approach, but how do you really practice that? How do you think about deploying people in opportunities that will give them the ability to shine?
Jennifer Chiang: The point about talent really resonated with me because oftentimes we think about boxes in an organizational structure. But when we were doing the research and the interviews, it was people defining the boxes. So, how do you actually stretch people? As you mentioned, it’s all about believing in someone’s potential.
Thank you so much for taking part in the podcast and we hope everyone has a chance to read the book.
