Driving the connected mobility shift: Verizon’s view on V2X

For two decades, vehicle-to-everything (V2X) tech lived mostly in pilot zones and debates on standards. That’s starting to change as 5G connectivity, maturing connected-car platforms, and edge computing are pushing intelligence closer to the road, cities, and automakers. The orchestration of traffic signals, vehicles, and sensors in real time could have major result: safer intersections, faster emergency response, smoother tolling, and a foundation for autonomous operations that can “see” beyond onboard sensors.

In this episode of Drivers of Disruption, host Matías Garibaldi sits down with Daniel Lawson, senior vice president (SVP) of global solutions and the Internet of Things (IoT) at Verizon Business, to explore what it takes to scale V2X from concept to citywide capability. Lawson explains Verizon’s Edge Transportation Exchange (ETX), an emerging platform that blends ultrareliable connectivity, low-latency edge computing, and network programmability to deliver actionable intelligence at the street level.

The conversation dives into near-term wins, such as emergency-vehicle preemption and vulnerable road user protection; the hard problems of commercialization across cities, OEMs, and insurers; and why baked-in cybersecurity is nonnegotiable as traffic systems become part of critical infrastructure. Along the way, Lawson shares insights from active pilots from autonomous freight corridors to OEM test facilities pointing to a landscape in the 2030s in which most vehicles are connected, autonomy is more capable and predictable, and consumers feel the benefits through increased safety, time savings, and lower costs.

An edited transcript of the conversation follows.

Matías Garibaldi: Welcome to Drivers of Disruption, a podcast where we cover the latest developments in mobility, current challenges, and solutions moving forward. Our topic today is V2X. V2X is a very exciting technology that has been around for 20 years. But over the last couple of years, we’ve been seeing a lot of momentum and growth taking shape.

That’s due to a couple of reasons that we’re going to cover today. One is 5G technology: Data communication is getting faster. Also we have connected vehicles having the ability to “speak” to each other and speak to a potential infrastructure. Given those things, we have use cases where a lot of different parties are working together to solve big problems.

With me is Daniel Lawson, SVP of global solutions and IoT at Verizon Business, which has recently launched ETX, a V2X platform. Daniel’s going to tell us about how V2X has applications today and applications in the future as well. Welcome, Daniel.

Daniel Lawson: Thanks for having me; I’m looking forward to chatting today.

You’re right; it’s a super exciting time in transportation as a whole. We’ve had a lot of these things as ideas on paper for a good amount of time, but now we’re seeing a confluence of technologies and demand to really see them start to come to life. So it’s an exciting time for sure.

Matías Garibaldi: I wanted to touch first on short term, and then let’s talk long term. So in regard to the short term, V2X can span numerous use cases and applications. We see it in vehicle safety. We can also see it in toll orchestration, and we can potentially see it in insurance. Where do you see the best applications for V2X today?

Daniel Lawson: Well I think you hit on a few of them. Certainly safety is the one that is primarily getting the most traction, and there’s a few flavors to that:

• The first is how we leverage orchestration of transportation infrastructure—traffic signals and things of that nature—to create a safer environment for emergency response, such as the ability for us to change traffic lights for an ambulance or for a fire truck that’s responding to emergency. We’ve done some of those things in a rudimentary way. I think there’s a more orchestrated way that we’re starting to see in some of the work we’re doing with cities and municipalities.
• Then there’s the pedestrian aspect: the vulnerable road user, the biker. We’ve seen a ton of progress in terms of the onboard sensors and capabilities that automotive manufacturers are putting in vehicles today. But that requires line of sight or some other way to know that the thing is in front of them to try to avoid, or the ability to “see around corners” to extend that level of protection to those vulnerable road users, to those pedestrians, when they’re behind the corner of a building here in New York City.
• And then there’s the tunnel space: making use of it in a much more efficient way or giving the toll operators a more efficient way to run their booths and collect tolls without creating additional congestion in already pretty congested roadways.

A lot of the things that are happening are not necessarily new concepts but new deployments and more efficient deployments of things that are important for the driver, the pedestrian, the municipality, and the department of transportation—all the different constituents that we find in this marketplace.

You think about all the things that a city wants to leverage to create a safer environment for their constituents. As with anything, as there’s more demand, as there are more players, you start to see the cost of the construction of those devices go down, and the installation becomes smoother. One of the things we’ll see as V2X continues to evolve is better interoperability so that not every deployment is a custom deployment.

Matías Garibaldi: As telematic control units [TCUs] get better developed or as V2X is integrated with OEMs, you will also bypass some of the things that you need to install in the cities today. That’s why I find what you’re working on extremely exciting—in the future, some of the equipment installed might not need to be installed in different areas of the city.

Daniel Lawson: That’s right. We’re certainly seeing it in all kinds of applications, but transportation is certainly at the forefront of that. There’s a lot that has to go into a camera or a sensor or anything else that’s operating at full speed as a vehicle is moving down the street.

There’s an image-inferencing model to say, “Hey, this is a fire hydrant”—or a cat or a human. To the extent that we can unload from the infrastructure that has to be in the car or on the streets or on a traffic signal. That makes the whole thing simple—or at least more straightforward.

Yes. And that’s where we think that there’s a huge opportunity for the edge compute strategy. I can offload some of the more onerous functions into the network, and that makes the form factor more appealing and makes the investment more appealing as well.

Matías Garibaldi: As autonomy evolves, how do you see V2X evolving over the next five to ten years?

Daniel Lawson: There’s a few elements to that one:

• In the ecosystem view, you’ll have a lot more players. I think over the long term, you would love to have—just taking the US as an example—the federal Department of Transportation, as well as the state Departments of Transportation all participating. Because then what you get is a broader data set, more enriched data. You can leverage it more effectively, and you can make better decisions. As you think about interoperability, as you bring more manufacturers—whether that’s the autos, whether that’s sensor manufacturers or cameras or TCUs or anything else—you will have more participation in the broader exchange.

• From a technology perspective, there are a number of things that are already in flight, so you’ll see much more robust as time goes on.

  One is how we leverage edge compute. There is a lot of work that’s happening right now in the AI space. I’m training these models in these massive data centers that are centrally located, but the real value is when I take the inferencing capabilities to the edge. So you’re going to see the network and edge compute play a big role there.

  Then there are things that we’re building into the core of the network as well, such as the ability to slice the network into different levels of prioritization. Obviously, there’s clear applicability for first responders, emergency services—those types of things. As you think about it, there’s potentially a transportation slice, such as a commercial slice for trucking. There could be lots of different ways that the network evolves, and the network will continue to be more and more “orchestratable.”

  And it’s not a static thing that you set and forget. It’s something that, as all of the things are happening—as the interactions with cameras and sensors and edge compute happen—the network can respond to: allocate more resources here or take resources away from there. So you see a significant step up in efficiency and capability as well.

Matías Garibaldi: I think it’s extremely interesting how the mobility world is developing and thus how crucial the node of telecommunications is becoming to stitch everything together.

How do you view the monetization model? There definitely is a benefit in the long term, and there are some use cases in the short term, but how do you ensure that everyone in that ecosystem is potentially incentivized? Or how do you view monetizing this today, when you don’t necessarily have all the jigsaw pieces together?

Daniel Lawson: That’s probably the most difficult question about V2X and the transportation industry as a whole. Because much like healthcare, you’ve got a lot of different constituents, a lot of different stakeholders that have relatively aligned objectives but are not always 100 percent aligned.

I think in the short term, it’s going to be based on benefits for the individual stakeholders—the toll operator or the city that can more effectively and efficiently collect tolls. There’s going to have to be a specific ROI on that. I think the same is true of collision avoidance: “What is the load that it takes off of my emergency services as a city or as a state or as a county?”

If you are an automotive manufacturer, you think back to when backup cameras first were on cars. That was a luxury option that you could add or you could not. Now I think pretty much every car has one, so it becomes something that is a universal good because it saves on fender repairs or other things. You’ll see the same thing here, where you can have some advanced autonomous-driving features.

You can have some advanced safety features, but over time, I think that becomes a broader common good. So what does that monetization path look like in 2030 or beyond? A lot of that is still forming, but key to understanding the path forward is identifying the broader value that this brings across all the different stakeholders. You mentioned the insurers; that’s obviously a huge one. Public welfare is a great one as well. There are a lot of people who die in vehicle accidents every year. How do you put a value on that?

We’re now at the point where we can solve a lot of these problems from a technology perspective. Then we can move on to tackle the commercialization of this whole infrastructure, this whole platform, because we’re no longer just having academic conversations. We’re having real conversations.

Matías Garibaldi: We’re going from the theoretical to real things that we see today. There’s different potential customers—you have cities, OEMs—but I think also that the final end user is also very important. If I am a car buyer, and I feel that I have an additional layer of safety in my vehicle, how do I, as one end consumer, actually value that?

Embedded insurance is something that’s coming up more and more. End consumers want to have the convenience of purchasing that when they purchase a vehicle—or basically have frictionless moments. How can V2X actually enable that, with all the data in the vehicles as well? There is a lot of value to the different players in that ecosystem, and I think the end consumer, as they start seeing the benefits, will start asking for this.

Daniel Lawson: I might even go so far as to say that the end consumer value is probably the anchor point for everything else because that’s what drives the most significant adoption at scale.

There’s layers to that, such as if I can pay less auto insurance because I’ve got more guaranteed safety built into not just the vehicle itself but it being out on the road. You could also look at a traffic jam: The person in the front slams on the brakes, and it just goes all the way back. If I can replace the brake pads on my car one less time over the lifetime of that car, there’s wear and tear value there as well.

Rather than me having to stay focused on the road for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon, I can use that time more efficiently to get caught up or get ready for the workday or interact with my family. There’s real value there for the consumer, and I think we’ll start to see some of that play out.

Matías Garibaldi: How do you see Verizon’s role in that ecosystem?

Daniel Lawson: That’s another question that’s got a pretty layered answer to it—illustrated, if I remember right, in your ACES [autonomous, connectivity, electrification, and shared mobility] model. We believe that connectivity is the foundational element:

• If I can’t connect to a vehicle or a camera or something, then it’s limited in its use, but connectivity is at the core of who we are and what we do. And connectivity comes in a lot of forms, but our view is that ultrareliable, high-speed, and ultrasecure communications are just absolutely table stakes. We have a decades-long track record of providing just that in the cellular-connectivity space. So that is our primary and foundational role in ETX and V2X more broadly.

• Second, we’ve got assets that we are currently mobilizing for these exact types of applications, where we can take capabilities right up to the edge of where they need to be delivered. SAE International set the 100-millisecond latency threshold for dedicated short-range communications many years ago. Even without edge compute, we know that we can get well underneath to start to enable V2X applications, but then you add edge compute: the significant footprint that we have globally. Focusing here on the US, that allows us to attack the latency problem, which is really the physics problem. There’s no way around that other than closing the distance, getting closer to the end node. So there is very much an infrastructure play there as well.

  You think about off-loading functions from devices. There’s a lot in the news today around the significant demands on space, power, and cooling for AI applications. That’s going to be the case here, as well, to a large extent. How do you leverage existing assets, like real estate footprint, to change and solve that problem in a different way? So there’s definitely an infrastructure play.

• Orchestration is another great example because there’s this concept of programmability in the network. Historically, people maybe had this view of networks as monolithic and static structures. We have been on probably a decade-long journey to create that programmable platform that is foundational to all of the other capabilities that are being built—whether the compute, the storage, the applications that sit on top of it—and then all of the things that move around and interact with it so that the network itself can be part of the orchestration. There are a lot of things that have to be orchestrated. I think it starts with making sure that the fundamental base layer of connectivity is the first of those things.

Matías Garibaldi: I wanted to touch a topic on that as well: cybersecurity. This is not a new topic for Verizon obviously.

Daniel Lawson: That’s part of my organization: our global cybersecurity practice. We very much are focused on the intersection between what happens when you create a 4,000-pound autonomous vehicle and the ability for somebody to potentially compromise that. It’s very much at the forefront of how we’re thinking about this.

Matías Garibaldi: That’s one of the concerns that people tend to have, the technology in the vehicle: “Do I feel safe in the vehicle?” The other big one is having all these nodes that can potentially be overridden and controlled. How are we feeling about that? Having that layer, having that knowledge, and making sure that there’s someone significantly playing that role is going to be crucial.

Daniel Lawson: You think about the evolution of the traffic as an example. Historically, there’s just a light on a timer. But once I start to essentially orchestrate those things, they become part of the threat surface. And if you’re looking at it from a government perspective, you’re probably also thinking, “That’s part of critical infrastructure.” Just like ports and just like the government buildings and everything else. So the burden of how you secure that infrastructure gets much higher because it now is a potential target. This very much cannot be rolled back to take ten or 15 years. Even in traditional IT, cybersecurity was sometimes a bolt on.

I think we’ve gotten much better at embedding the infrastructure that has to be a secure-by-design approach in V2X, and it’s the approach we’re taking in the ETX as well. You can’t think about it in step three or four; you have to think about it in step one.

Matías Garibaldi: One of the things that’s very important to V2X is you have one accident, and it has a huge ripple effect. Consumers are building their trust on the technology. One bad actor can really have a huge delay to the implementation of the technology for everyone, right?

Daniel Lawson: There’s a human nature element to this. To use an analogy that I think most people will be familiar with, you talk about call centers, contact centers, where you’re calling in and talking to a customer service representative. We’ve seen in studies that we’ve done that you can get by with a 90 or 95 percent accuracy rate with a human, but the expectation when interacting with a bot is much higher. To your point: One failure creates ripple effects across it. That is absolutely the case when we’re talking about vehicles moving around with people in them. The costs of those mistakes are much higher.

Matías Garibaldi: One of the difficult areas in the space is the accountability. Who’s accountable for that?

Daniel Lawson: We’re spending a lot of time with the OEMs, the auto manufacturers. We have a significant relationship with the US federal government, all of the US states, as well as many US municipalities. And so we have a number of one-on-one conversations around the key drivers of any particular organization—whether business outcome, delivering a certain type of experience to the end user, or health and safety within a city, for example. There’s a lot of fact finding and open conversations around the motivations and the incentives behind why we go in this direction.

It creates an opportunity for those conversations to come together, for those voices to join. We spend a lot of time with 5GAA and with the Chicago Transit Authority for vehicles with intelligent transportation systems. These industry opportunities allow groups to come together and discuss the broader ecosystem. I think, as in any industry, that’s going to be critical to continued alignment of outcomes and opportunities across the different stakeholders. I don’t think we’re there yet. In fact, I think we’re just starting to build some of those bridges—pardon the pun.

That is going to be one of the critical success factors, in addition to what we talked about a little bit ago around the real value for the end consumer. If you think about those two bookends, all the stuff in the middle gets figured out.

Matías Garibaldi: If you have the edge computing, you can potentially make the argument that they need to put less of that on their actual vehicles, potentially at lower cost. It’s almost that you have to work down the line. Then you go to the different city governments. Then you go into the insurers.

A lot of insurance companies are trying to figure out where they fit in all this. What does the future of car insurance look like in ten years? They’re probably very curious.

In my opinion, I think one of the challenges is that a lot of governments are very localized. That’s one of the more challenging areas of scaling because you can’t go to every city at the same time. There are different nuances across each city. But you start hitting some of the big ones, and then you see the pilots, and people start getting that consumer trust and actually seeing the benefits. And then that hopefully opens the gates throughout other cities as well.

Daniel Lawson: Yeah, I think there has to be some element of top–down commonality that just broadly applies. I think there are lots of ways to get after that. But the needs of New York are going to be different from the needs of Oklahoma City. Cities are very geographically dispersed, very dense, with all sorts of different types of considerations. Is there a significant amount of mass transportation? Those factors create different considerations in terms of what you have to look out for, how you handle railroad crossings and subway tunnels—all those types of things.

There’s certainly going to be variations based on the locations that we’re talking about, but there has to be a top–down view that there are fundamentals that have to be everywhere. And then in each city or town or municipality, you can build on top of that.

Matías Garibaldi: Having that governance and oversight is the core design principles that we want to move forward with. Establishing that early with the right players in the room is fundamental.

I want to transition to autonomy. I think V2X has significant applications there today. I think it’s extremely interesting to think of autonomy and how to make it more cost-effective and applicable in different use cases—not just personal vehicles, but shuttles and commercial transportation. How do you see V2X enhancing autonomy?

Daniel Lawson: As we’ve touched on a little bit, there are range limitations with an onboard camera or what I can feel with an onboard sensor. Autonomy can be navigating and dealing with the things that are right in front of me: lane change or a turn or whatever else. But also, if you zoom out, it can look at the broader question, “How can I optimize this path?” That’s where we start to see an interaction with things that are beyond a visual line of sight or that are beyond the range of the sensor.

That might be an ad hoc construction or repair event that’s happening on a roadway. So as road cones get deployed, maybe those are connected to V2X. If there’s a motor vehicle accident, and that starts to reroute traffic, do I know about that much sooner and start to route around it?

The platform itself opens the door, widens the aperture, in terms of the inputs to autonomy. And it starts to take down some of the limitations that we’re seeing sometimes around geofencing. We’ve removed the restrictions around how far I can go in a robo-taxi or Waymo or whatever else because now I can know things beyond the area with which I’m familiar. I think that’s the biggest one.

Matías Garibaldi: You also get edge cases—so seeing outside of the line of sight, like you mentioned. But I also think there’s a potential value in regard to knowing, for example, the data in the intersections and knowing if a specific intersection has issues ahead of time. The vehicle might not have that knowledge ahead of time. So if you think of a smart vehicle as well as a smart intersection, there’s a lot better decision-making that can probably happen at that place, which then makes the vehicle safer. You potentially lower the cost on the vehicle itself.

One of the things that we also talk about a lot is autonomy could work very well if every vehicle is autonomous today. But you have human drivers also. So I see V2X potentially closing the gap of that communication between a human driver and an autonomous vehicle. That will be the world we’re going to live in. We’re not going to just have binary autonomy one day.

Daniel Lawson: There’s no switch that we’re going to flip—exactly. I think that it’s a great point because of what the human driver injects into the equation; what 100 percent autonomous ubiquity doesn’t have is unpredictability.

Maybe I want to take the long route, the scenic route, because I want to clear my head. You can’t necessarily predict that with an algorithm. So the ability to react to unpredictability will be super important.

Matías Garibaldi: I think of specific drives that I do on the weekend. And I know that people take U-turns where they shouldn’t. The autonomous vehicle might not know that. The autonomous vehicle is acting with a lot of great information in the present moment and obviously getting smarter over time. But if you had a guidepost that’s telling you, “Hey, this is what actually is also happening here,” it could have amazing, amazing effects on the technology. It’s fascinating.

I want to go into the current pilots that you have. What is Verizon working on today that you’re excited about?

Daniel Lawson: There are a few things that we’ve talked about. We’re currently doing some testing with TCU manufacturers around the vulnerable-road-user concept, such as with bikers. A lot of these tests will start without an obstructed view, but you can get data, and you can build up to the test cases, so we’re doing some work with that.

You asked how we are interacting with the broader ecosystem. We’re showing up at a lot of manufacturing and OEM technology days or innovation days, and we’re starting to get our engineers together in testing. So that’s an example of one of the ways that we’re doing that.

We talked about the impacts that slicing might have on a network. We’re doing a lot of testing with emergency services around a first responder slice of the network.

We’re also working with a trucking company in Texas that is sending autonomous loads from Houston to Dallas. That’s a great example of where we’re seeing ten- to 15-second recognition and understanding ahead of what you would get with a camera or sensor. That allows an 18-wheeler with a very significant load that takes a lot longer to stop, whether that’s with ice on the road or an accident or construction, more time to stop. We’re learning a lot through that pilot.

Historically, you look at a lot of the players in the space, and a lot of the learning has had to happen on the road—such as with driver-assisted tech. How many times have you seen a Waymo going around town as a driver sits there watching just in case?

What we’re doing with a lot of auto manufacturers is deploying infrastructure at their production and testing facilities so that we can start testing the advanced driver assisted system as it rolls off the line. We can create an ETX environment so that we can learn much more quickly and rapidly apply that to the next car and the next car and the next car.

We have a bunch. The one I just referenced is in Germany. I mentioned Texas. We’ve been all over the place. That’s one of the things that probably has me the most optimistic: While there are differences—and there always will be because each manufacturer wants to create a different experience for their customer or each city wants to create a different environment for their constituents—by and large, there’s a great alignment that’s happening now.

So you intersect that with what we talked about at the beginning, the confluence of available technologies, to make this a discussion that goes from the theoretical into the practical. You have what appears to be much broader-based demand and pretty good alignment. I think we have probably the best shot that we’ve had in a long time to solve some of the in-between issues—such as governance, adoption, and scale.

Matías Garibaldi: Pilots are incredibly important in creating a minimum viable product to build, measure, test, and learn. Tell me more on Verizon’s approach to this.

Daniel Lawson: Our general approach has been not to take a capital I innovation approach—innovation that sits on a poster on the wall. We’re much more interested in the practical. That’s why we do much of our work in a partner ecosystem in our labs. What can we deploy? How can we bring our technology to a partner and deploy it with their engineers and really learn from real-world examples, not theoretical examples?

The session that we’re having later today is precisely that: We’ll have a number of partners. We’ll invite our customers from the public sector and the private sector, and we’ll talk about real-world use cases and applications, not as in, “Here’s the end of the journey,” but instead as in “Here’s the beginning of the journey. Here’s what we’re seeing. What are we missing? What do you say? Let’s work together and figure out the next iteration and the next iteration and the next iteration.” That’s been a big shift in our broader strategy, certainly in B2B, B2B2C, and the public sector.

There’s not a product that is launched and then has this life cycle. The product plays a role in a broader ecosystem, and the product has to evolve over time. Connectivity is a great example of that. Pre-iPhone, we had a very different view of what “connectivity” meant. Now hundreds of millions of lines connect things, in addition to smartphones and everything else—tablets, watches. Now connectivity is a very different thing.

And the conversation earlier about “cybersecurity”? The word also means a very different thing in terms of risk. Our broader approach is, “How do we bring all these things together? How do we catalyze the right conversations to solve real problems and then go on to the next problem?” There’s always something else to solve.

Matías Garibaldi: I find the work you’re doing fascinating—in part, because the lines of mobility are blurring. Different players are now overlapping, and people need to work together. You sometimes see organizations more siloed or sometimes waiting and almost in a purgatory mode because something’s not completely finished.

You’re basically pivoting as you go. You understand the other players, how you work with your partners and customers, and if it’s right for the end consumer to have.

You bring something live that’s valuable to everyone—and do that quickly. The world is changing so rapidly that you need those pivot and minimum valuable product muscles as you’re developing these things.

Daniel Lawson: That’s a really important point. You have to deconstruct some of the silos because there’s a tax to your agility if you operate in that silo model.

We like to say, “You think big, but you start small.” It doesn’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to solve everybody’s—there are so many different players in the transportation business—problems all at once. Start the work with the ones that are the most interesting or the most beneficial. Safety is a great place to start.

Matías Garibaldi: Having that “North Star” of where you want to go is important but not necessary for every step in every milestone. Sometimes companies will get a little held back by that.

As a wrap up, we were talking about three to five years out. It’s funny—2030 is actually five years away, so let’s zoom out a little bit further. In 2035—so when your daughters are driving or not driving—how do you see V2X? How do you see telecom players and those lines of mobility blurring?

Daniel Lawson: You just look at some of the projections and the metrics around those projections. By 2030, you’ll have 90-plus percent of all cars on the road connected. That starts to get to a scale at which true V2X becomes a reality. You’ll also have 50 percent , give or take, of cars that are operating at a level-two autonomy or higher. The proportion of autonomous versus nonautonomous vehicles gets higher, bringing a little bit more uniformity to the overall ecosystem.

There are several benefits that we could potentially see:

• In 2024, there were 40,000 fatalities in the US due to motor vehicle accidents. There’s a massive opportunity to start to chip away at that, which is great for everyone.
• The emissions associated with traffic jams and things of that nature may be less of a problem, as there’s more focus away from internal combustion engines and toward electric vehicles—but it’s still energy regardless.
• There are plenty of estimates around the cost of congestion being potentially as high as $60 billion to $100 billion.
• There’s the end user benefit. If I can save an average of around 20 hours a year of driving, and that’s a very conservative estimate, what can I do with that time?

To me and to us at Verizon, those reinforce the value of or the need for robust, scalable, reliable, and secure connectivity. We have to have a platform that allows my car to communicate with the streetlight to understand what’s happening ten miles ahead of me—whether it’s weather or anything else—to drive a better outcome for the journey that I’m on. We think that what we’re building and have built is the perfect platform to start to deliver on some of those outcomes.

By 2035, you’re going to see a very mature platform that incorporates all the things that we talked about: edge compute around slicing, enabled connectivity at the edge, and analytics at the edge. All those things are going to be key enablers for that future that doesn’t have 40,000 fatalities from motor vehicle accidents and that doesn’t take as much energy to operate.

Matías Garibaldi: Add the cybersecurity part on top of that because as soon as you have all those vehicles on level two or above, you are really relinquishing control. Doing that in a safe manner is going to be crucial.

Daniel Lawson: Yeah, absolutely.

Matías Garibaldi: Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it, and we’re excited to hear more about how Verizon Business is doing in this space and to find out more about the pilots as we see them in the news.

Daniel Lawson: Thanks for having me. We’ll make sure to come back and do some updates.