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Discover the art of storytelling with Fiona Callanan, McKinsey alum, lawyer, and TEDx speaker, as she joins host Nurul Rahmayanti. In this episode, Fiona shares her journey from practicing law to coaching TEDx speakers and McKinsey’s legal team on storytelling. She reflects on how her disability shaped her public speaking, discusses storytelling’s essential role in legal practice, and reveals how yoga helps her balance life. Tune in for insights on storytelling, personal growth, and navigating change with curiosity.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity
Zoë Badger: Hello, and welcome to the McKinsey Legal Podcast. I’m your host, Zoe Badger, Associate General Counsel at McKinsey. The McKinsey Legal Podcast is for legal and business professionals, where we explore legal issues that matter to you and the world.
In Season 2, we’re shifting our focus to explore the colorful career paths within the legal profession. The different experiences and perspectives of our esteemed guests on their diverse career trajectories will provide us a deeper understanding of the possibilities of legal career paths and their impact on business and society at large.
In this first episode of Season 2, my colleague Nurul Rahmayanti sits down with Fiona Callanan, a McKinsey alum, lawyer, yoga teacher, TEDx Speaker and Coach, and an amazing mother. They discuss Fiona's multifaceted journey, how she uses her passion for storytelling to enable her work in litigation and investigations, her approach to balancing professional and personal life, and the insights she has gained from her diverse experiences. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Nurul Rahmayanti: Hello everyone! Welcome to McKinsey’s legal podcast. I am Nurul Rahmayanti, a contract specialist at McKinsey & Company, based in Jakarta, Indonesia. I am going to be your host for this story telling episode. I am feeling amazing today because I’m going to have an interesting conversation with our amazing guest: Fiona Callanan. Fiona Callanan is McKinsey’s alum, a lawyer, a Yoga Teacher, a TEDx Speaker and Coach, and the list goes on. I really hope to mention everything if time allows, but let me just bring her in to share her journey with us. Hi Fiona! Welcome to McKinsey’s legal podcast! How are you?
Fiona Callanan: Hi Nurul! I am good, how are you?
Nurul Rahmayanti: I am great! Thank you for agreeing to do this. I know you are busy, so I really appreciate you’re making time to share your story through this podcast.
Fiona Callanan: Thank you for having me.
Discovering the World: From History Class to Japan and Embracing New Cultures in Hong Kong
Nurul Rahmayanti: Sure. So, Fiona, I know you and your inspiring story as we both worked together in the past and I also listened your TEDx episodes, which I think it’s amazing to know your process in dealing with every major change in your life. Could you share with our listener about your journey, how you build such courage to make big decision in your life and how you were adapting to changes?
Fiona Callanan: Thanks, Nurul. Sure. My journey started right after university. Until then, I had only lived in the UK, but I was always curious about the world. In my final year, while pursuing a history degree, I studied Japanese history, which sparked my interest in Japan and Asia. So, after graduating in 2000, I joined the JET Program to teach English in Japan for a year. The JET Program, sponsored by the Japanese government, invited recent graduates from countries like the UK, Canada, Australia, and the U.S. to teach in rural Japanese schools. The goal was to expose students, who rarely encountered foreigners, to different cultures. It was an incredible experience. I fell in love with exploring new cultures, meeting people from around the world, and discovering personal freedom and independence.
After leaving Japan, I realized I wanted an international career. That led me to move to Hong Kong with Freshfields, a magic circle law firm, for what was supposed to be a year. Fast forward to 2023, and I had spent 16 years in Asia. Of course, life brought many changes along the way, but I’ve approached them similarly to that first leap to Japan—staying curious about each new chapter and asking what I can gain from the experience.
Fear of the unknown is always there, but I’ve come to see it as my mind’s way of seeking certainty and staying in its comfort zone. Over time, I’ve gotten better at confronting that fear, questioning whether it's grounded in reality, and asking myself what I have to lose by moving forward. The answer is usually, “Not much.” So, I push through. This approach has brought me immense growth. Change teaches us a lot—both about ourselves and the world around us. I’ve learned to embrace it, as long as I’m convinced it’s for the right reason.
Public Speaking: TEDx and the Power of Storytelling
Nurul Rahmayanti: Thanks for sharing that, Fiona. I am also curious about you deciding to share your stories widely through TEDx. Has public speaking always been your passion?
Fiona Callanan: Actually, no! I never saw myself as a public speaker. But in 2017, a friend of mine, who was on the committee for a new TEDx event in Hong Kong, asked if I’d be interested in giving a talk about my disability—I’m a right below-knee amputee.
I agreed, thinking it sounded interesting and aligned with my curiosity. At the time, though, I had no idea what I would say. Looking back, it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. It gave me a platform to reflect publicly on my disability and what it had taught me—something I hadn’t really done before, but needed to. Preparing and delivering the talk also taught me a great deal about myself.
The experience of giving that talk was challenging but transformative. It boosted my confidence, showing me that I could take on difficult things and succeed. In many ways, that TEDx talk became a foundational experience—encouraging me to keep exploring new possibilities. It also helped me trust that if I follow my curiosity and put in the effort, things tend to work out better than my doubts suggest they will.
Beyond personal growth, the TEDx experience taught me the art of storytelling. I later had the opportunity to coach future TEDx speakers in Hong Kong and, eventually, the McKinsey Asia legal team on storytelling techniques—which, I believe, leads us nicely to your next question.
Nurul Rahmayanti: My next question would be related more to your professional career. As McKinsey alum, could you share how did your time at McKinsey help to develop the importance of storytelling in your legal practice?
Fiona Callanan: Certainly. A few things helped me during my time at McKinsey:
First, McKinsey places a strong emphasis on storytelling, recognizing its importance for everyone. It’s central to how we, as internal counsel, support our consultants in communicating effectively with their clients.
In 2022, I had the honor of leading the McKinsey Asia Legal team’s storytelling training. As part of this, I coached my legal colleagues on developing their storytelling skills. Teaching others is always one of the best ways to learn, and this experience allowed me to refine my own legal storytelling while helping my colleagues discover their own unique styles.
Crafting Impactful Stories: A Skill for Every Lawyer
Nurul Rahmayanti: I remember being coached by you on storytelling, and I’ve realized it’s not just about sharing our stories—it’s also about the process. I needed time to decide what to share, write a narrative, and restructure my story multiple times. Through that process, I not only learned how to communicate clearly, but I also reflected on the core message I wanted to convey. It involved a lot of thought and self-reflection. Could you share how developing storytelling skills has benefited you in your professional work as a lawyer?
Fiona Callanan: I completely agree, Nurul—the process is everything. While the outcome matters, the real value lies in what you learn along the way. This applies to storytelling just as much as it does to mastering any other skill, like learning a handstand.
Now, to answer your question: how does storytelling apply to our work as lawyers? Let me share a story to explain.
As you know, I specialize in litigation and investigations. But the reason I chose this path was because of the stories. In litigation, it typically begins with a client facing a problem. They come to you for help, sharing their version of the facts—their story. However, you know that what they tell you is just one perspective. To give the best possible advice, you need to understand how they see things, what matters most to them, and what underlying emotions or priorities are shaping their narrative.
After hearing their story, you turn to the evidence. The documents offer an objective view that often differs from the client’s account. You compare the two and identify inconsistencies or gaps. These discrepancies prompt more questions, leading to deeper discussions with the client. Over time, a clearer, more balanced version of events begins to emerge—one that is less influenced by emotions or unconscious biases. Once you have this fuller picture, you look at the legal framework. In many cases, the law offers no straightforward answers, and there are pros and cons to every course of action. Your role is to find the most practical option, drawing on your experience and expertise. However, the best option from an objective standpoint may not align with what the client wants. Often, the client’s resistance stems from the story they tell themselves about the situation. It becomes your job to act in their best interest, even when it means persuading them to take a path they initially resist.
How do you do that? You tell them a story—crafted with insight into the client’s beliefs and the problem they’re facing. A good story connects the truth, logic, evidence, and hard facts to something meaningful for the client. That’s the essence of legal storytelling. It’s not just about presenting the facts; it’s about presenting them in a way that resonates. This approach isn’t limited to litigation. It applies across the legal profession. The stories we tell—whether to clients, courts, or even ourselves—shape outcomes. They are the key to making or breaking our success as lawyers.
Nurul Rahmayanti: Thanks for sharing. Are there any tips from you on how to build an impactful story to tell? Because maybe a lot of people wants to be able to master this skill, but we just don’t know what to tell because we think we have less interesting story than other people or maybe we are just shy or not confident?
Fiona Callanan: Nurul, I love that you asked this. Building a strong story requires effort—following the process step by step. Here are some key things to consider:
- Clarify your purpose: What do you want to achieve with your story? What message are you trying to convey, and why is it important?
- Understand your audience: What do you know about their preconceptions and beliefs? What stories might they already be telling themselves about the topic you’re addressing?
- Make the story relatable: How can you make your audience feel that your story is also theirs? What actions can you take to build that connection? Do you need help from others, or are there different ways to tell your story that you haven’t explored yet? Be creative in your approach.
Ultimately, storytelling offers many paths to the same destination. There’s no single formula. With practice, you’ll discover how to tell your story effectively—whether you’re a reserved introvert or an outgoing extrovert. The approach may differ, but the outcome will be just as impactful.
Finding Balance: Yoga as a Path to Strength and Peace
Nurul Rahmayanti: Thank you, Fiona! Another interesting fact about you is, besides being a lawyer and also coach for public speaker and storytelling, you are also a Yoga teacher. How did you start? Why yoga is interesting for you?
Fiona Callanan: I started practicing yoga in 2014, just after the birth of my daughter—my second baby in 18 months. It was an unbearably hot day, and I had a stressful cab ride from Happy Valley, where I lived, to a yoga studio in Central. The traffic was awful, and by the time I arrived, both the driver and I were completely on edge. I was flustered and exhausted, but also curious.
I had tried yoga before and found it physically challenging, especially with my prosthetic leg, but also intriguing. I enjoyed discovering which poses I could and couldn’t do, and I often surprised myself. Encouraged by someone’s recommendation, I decided to try this new studio and teacher. Still, I was so stressed from the trip that I rushed straight into the yoga room without even stopping to change, shoes flying off as I hurried in with my bag. To my relief, the room was calm, and the peaceful atmosphere quickly grounded me. I chose a mat in the corner to avoid disturbing others and started to focus. The class was challenging, as expected, but I stuck with it. It wasn’t a disaster. I liked the teacher—she gave me space to settle in until halfway through when she came over, gently corrected my pose, and simply said, "You’re sweating—that’s good." That was all I needed.
There was another student in the class, a regular of the teacher’s, who had also just returned after giving birth. The teacher spent part of the class congratulating her for coming back six weeks postpartum. And all I could think was, I’m even more hardcore—it’s only been a month since I gave birth, and I have one leg, not two. I left the class feeling lighter, with my ego nicely boosted. That’s how my yoga journey began.
Since then, I like to think I’ve become less ego-driven in my practice, but I still gain the same benefits as I did on that first day. Physically, yoga has shown me that my body can do far more than I ever thought possible, prosthetic leg or not. At 46, I’m the strongest, healthiest, and most flexible I’ve ever been. Mentally, my practice gives me space—something that’s hard to find these days. It helps me challenge my mind’s perceived limitations and nurture my curiosity. It also reveals how often my fears are unfounded. Emotionally, yoga has taught me that I am not my thoughts or emotions. I’ve learned that I don’t have to be ruled by them. I’ve become better at responding thoughtfully, rather than reacting impulsively, and at being kind and compassionate—both to myself and to those around me.
Nurul Rahmayanti: Fantastic! Fiona, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I wish you good luck for everything you plan for, and excited to see all interesting things you will accomplish in the future. Please keep me posted.
Zoë Badger: Thank you for listening to the first episode of Season 2 of the McKinsey Legal Podcast, where we explored Fiona Callanan's inspiring journey and the balance between professional and personal life. Join us for the next episode as we continue to delve into diverse career paths in the legal profession. This episode is a production of the McKinsey Legal Department and was produced and edited by Stephanie Spangler and Jinny Suh, co-hosted and written by Nurul Rahmayanti, with original music by David Shaporov.