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Discover the unexpected journey of legal careers with Liz Chung, General Counsel of Netflix Korea, and host Jinny Suh in this episode. Liz shares her path from a conventional role in law, driven by societal expectations, to pioneering international arbitration and navigating the complexities of the digital era. Join us for an insightful discussion on adaptability, ethical considerations in tech, and the transformative power of legal practice.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Zoë Badger: Hello and welcome to the McKinsey Legal Podcast. I’m your host, Zoë Badger, Associate General Counsel at McKinsey. The McKinsey Legal Podcast is a podcast for legal and business professionals where we explore legal issues on innovation and creativity that matter to you and the world. This podcast features interviews with global legal and business leaders to learn more about ways to unlock our innovative and creative capabilities and highlight stories on innovators in the legal and business world through a lawyer’s perspective, learn from them, and explore how to amplify our own professional trajectory with insights from our guests.
In this episode, my colleague Jinny Suh sits down with Liz Chung, General Counsel of Netflix Korea, to talk about her journey and insights on legal counsel’s role in the ever-developing business world. Their conversation highlights the importance of finding the sweet spot between what we love, what we are good at, and what the world needs. I hope you enjoy this episode.
Jinny Suh: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the McKinsey Legal Podcast. I’m Jinny Suh, an Associate General Counsel based in McKinsey’s Korea office. In this episode, we are going to cover career changes within the legal profession and ways to navigate the ever-developing world as corporate lawyers. Today, we have a very special guest joining us, who has not only achieved great success in the legal profession but has also experienced incredible career changes. I’m excited to introduce Liz Chung, who currently serves as the General Counsel of Netflix Korea. Liz brings a wealth of experience from her background as a judge, international arbitration practitioner, and in-house counsel for innovative companies like Microsoft and Netflix. She is also a board member of several companies and serves as an arbitrator for several arbitration committees. Among many recognitions she received during her career, Liz was awarded the Inhouse Lawyer of the Year in 2022 by ALB Korea Law Awards. Welcome Liz and thank you for being on the show.
Liz Chung: Jinny, thank you for having me. Before we begin, I’d like to clarify at the outset that whatever I say today is my personal views and should not be attributed to any of the companies that I have been associated with in the past or in the present.
An unconventional early career: Right place, right time
Jinny Suh: Thank you. That was very legal! Before we start delving into your remarkable career journey, tell me about your background, where you grew up, and how you landed in law.
Liz Chung: I was born in Seoul, but I spent a few years growing up in London due to my father’s work. He was dispatched to the London office. Being a lawyer wasn’t my dream job at all when I was young, but I knew I wanted to work even after marriage and children. Back in the ‘90s, as crazy as it may sound now, it wasn’t common for women in Korea to build a long-lasting career. I was told that I needed to become a so-called professional to have a stable career, and that meant being a doctor or a lawyer. And, if I were to choose between medicine and law, it was law. So, I studied law at university as an undergraduate in Korea and passed the National Judicial Examination. After two years of a mandatory judicial training program, I started my career as a young judge at the Seoul Central District Courts.
Jinny Suh: May I ask how young you mean by a young judge?
Liz Chung: I didn’t want to reveal my age, but at that time I was 26.
Jinny Suh: 26, okay!
Liz Chung: But our legal education system has undergone a big change since then. In the past, if you passed the national judicial exam and went through two years of judicial training at the JLTI, Judicial Research and Training Institute, under the Supreme Court, you could become a judge, a public prosecutor, or a private practitioner. In 2009, after a much-heated debate, we introduced a US-style law school system and made legal education a graduate program. So, after graduating from law school, you now need to pass the bar examination to become an attorney. Nowadays, you need to have some years of private practice to become a judge. Under the prior system, one could become a judge at a young age, but that is not the case anymore. After four years at the court, I turned to private practice and joined Kim & Chang. It was about exactly 20 years ago.
Jinny Suh: 20 years! I know that’s a long time ago, but do you remember why you left your job as a judge and decided to join Kim & Chang? For our listeners, Kim & Chang, founded in 1973, has grown to become the top law firm in Korea and now is a popular career option even for former judges and prosecutors. But back in 2003, 20 years ago, wasn’t it considered a rather radical, unconventional career choice?
Liz Chung: Even back then, there were senior judges, that when they turned to private practice, some of them, although it wasn’t very common, joined Kim & Chang and other large law firms. I guess what wasn’t very common back then was for a young judge to join a large law firm. During the four years, I learned a lot from senior judges at the court, it provided solid training for me, and I’m very glad that I started my career that way. As I mentioned earlier, I spent a few years abroad in my formative years and this wasn’t also very common back then. Korea was almost unknown on the international stage and was still struggling to develop economically.
After four years at the court, I remembered what my father had told me back in London. He was trying to set up a subsidiary, and he mentioned that it was difficult for him as a non-English, native speaker at a Korean company to work with UK and U.S. lawyers in England. Wouldn’t it be great if there were Korean lawyers who could assist Korean companies in international matters? I thought if I stayed at the court longer, I might not get that chance to work in international legal matters.
What was especially uncommon back then was that my biggest ask when joining Kim & Chang was to not put me in the litigation department, although that was my background. I wanted to do something new, and I’m grateful that Kim & Chang took a bet on me as I experienced corporate, HR, due diligence for M&A, competition work, and so forth, and ended up joining the newly set up international arbitration team. I also worked on corporate compliance and crisis management work, all of which suited my dispute court background, and my desire to do cross border international work.
Jinny Suh: That’s really fascinating. When I first joined Kim & Chang, you were already a very well-established arbitration practitioner, and I simply assumed you were part of that international arbitration team because you are a bilingual litigator. Did you feel after experiencing corporate, HR, and M&A due diligence, “I just prefer litigation arbitration.” Is that how you decided to end up in arbitration?
Liz Chung: It wasn’t exactly decided that way, but it was, you know, 2003, 2004. That’s around the time, about three or four years after the Asia financial crisis. There were a lot of disputes arising, on the deals that were concluded during the financial crisis. These contracts had international arbitration clauses, and you needed somebody with some sort of dispute experience, with some sort of English capabilities, and who could deal with multicultural disputes. Korean companies wanted, obviously, assistance from Korean law firms as they know the language, etc. So, the practice was starting, and there wasn’t really anybody who kind of knew what international arbitration was. I was there at the right time, at the right place. I have a court background, so I know how disputes usually work, and I know English. I am very fascinated by the practice because not only, you know, a dispute has become a bit of my thing, but also, just working with multicultural parties and arguing Korean law in front of common law background arbitrators. It was all very interesting and fascinating, so that’s kind of how I got in. It didn’t mean that I didn’t like corporate or HR or any other practices.
Jinny Suh: Listening to your explanation of the background and the requirements, it almost sounds like the only person that had all those qualities back then in the early 2000s was you. I don’t think anyone could have met all those requirements back then.
Liz Chung: Yes, I was, I think, at the right place at the right time.
Making the leap in house
Jinny Suh: Exactly. It’s almost like being in Silicon Valley in the late 90s and early 2000s. After spending 16 years at Kim & Chang in international arbitration, you made another shift that surprised the whole Korean legal community by joining Microsoft Korea as the head of legal. Can you tell us what inspired you to make the leap from private practice to an in-house role at Microsoft?
Liz Chung: I mean after 20 years of court and law firm practice, it’s not easy to make the leap and I wasn’t looking for any in-house legal position. As I said, I really enjoyed international arbitration practice, but I think 20 years, the milestone kind of hits you at some point. I think that was 2018. I felt like I wasn’t growing as a professional. At the time, many people were talking about the 4th Industrial Revolution and how tech could change our lives. So, it was a great coincidence; again, the right place, the right time that the head of legal and policy role at Microsoft Korea opened.
And the fact that it was also a job where you did policy work interested me because, you know, dispute work is kind of cleaning up the mess after the fact. Policy work is more forward looking, shaping the policy in the forefront. So, I thought it’d be really interesting to do some of that kind of forward-looking work as well. So, that was a perfect time to join Microsoft.
Jinny Suh: 20 years is a good milestone for someone to look back and make changes, I think that number of years is coming down these days. I think most associate attorneys these days, think after two, three years, “I think two years, three years is a good milestone for me to look back and plan for the future.” That cycle is expedited these days. For me, I left Kim & Chang after 10 years, but even before that, I thought that five years was a good milestone for me to look back and plan for the future.
Liz Chung: Yes, I think when I joined Microsoft, I actually thought maybe 16 years at Kim & Chang was a bit too long of a time that I spent there. Maybe it would have been better if I joined three or four years ago, but it’s all in hindsight, right? So, I cannot deny that I enjoyed the practice at Kim & Chang, but 20 years is, you think more, I think.
Jinny Suh: I think the beauty of those big organizations like Kim & Chang, and McKinsey, is that there’s a lot of areas that you can explore and grow within. If it’s a small organization, after two, or three years, you get to know everything about that organization and the work. But for those large companies and organizations, even if you stay in the same company for 10 years, 20 years, or 30 years, because of the size, you keep on getting new opportunities. I think that’s what kept you there for 20 years. Still, over those 20 years, you were able to continue to grow and learn.
Liz Chung: Yes, I think you’re exactly right.
Working through munsong
Jinny Suh: One thing that I wanted to ask you is, you started your corporate counsel in-house job at Microsoft, and Microsoft is a tech company, and you must know the basic technological terms like cloud, digital transformation, etc. Honestly, I still feel very ignorant and almost vulnerable when I hear those terms as a lawyer. It feels like an unknown territory.
In Korea, we even have a term for that, which is called munsong. It’s a combination of mun, meaning liberal arts, and song, which is the second word of choe-song, which means “I’m sorry.” Put together, it means, “I’m sorry for being a tech dummy.” I wanted to ask because you worked at Microsoft before and now at Netflix. How did you overcome this kind of barrier as a lawyer?
Liz Chung: Well, I’m definitely still working on it. Someone once told me you fake it until you make it and that’s what I keep thinking about. I think just being curious helps a lot. At a very basic level, when I think of digital transformation, for example, it is thinking about how you can get more things done. Whether that’s individually, or as a business, and how you can obtain more insight that you couldn’t have otherwise obtained by using technology and data while protecting privacy and security. It’s about empowering people to do more and to excel higher.
Also, I think there is a lot to be contributed by humanities majors who find math and technology challenging. I’m definitely for one, but having kind of experience in a tech company in that kind of environment, I came to believe that we need to have a principled approach to a lot of things like the protection of privacy and security. There are ethical issues that arise with the development of AI, responsible AI, and how AI should be used for the good of the society.
All these kinds of thought-provoking and somewhat philosophical issues arise with the development of technology, and the contributions from someone with a humanities mindset is really helpful. As you know, I have two girls. One is very much into humanities, while the other is into natural sciences, and I kind of jokingly tell them that if you two can work as a team, they will be a dream team. Even if we’re talking about digital transformation, generative AI and everything, I really do believe there is a place for somebody who thinks about philosophical issues, humanities issues, what is right, what is wrong, and that kind of thing.
Organizational culture and cultural impact
Jinny Suh: I totally agree and thank you. I’m going to recycle that comment and use it for some other speech because that was really inspiring. Thank you for sharing. After two and a half years at Microsoft, you made another significant move to Netflix. This is really interesting because it seems like as years go by, you are moving to towards more and more progressive, younger, and new organizations. Microsoft is at least considered a traditional computer tech giant, but Netflix was founded in 1997 and it’s an entertainment company focused on providing subscription-based video streaming service, and it became popular only in the last decade. And we both grew up renting videotapes from Blockbuster. I wanted to ask what motivated this change and what have been the highlights of your experience so far?
Liz Chung: I jokingly say that my career began with using Hangeul, this Korean word processor was used by the Korean government in courts. Then I moved to MS Word, and then to M365, the cloud version of MS Word, and finally landing on Google Suites. So, you are right that I have transitioned to newer, younger organizations, and I’m also very much interested in organizational culture. It was wonderful to see and experience the digital and cultural transformation at Microsoft, albeit for a short while. I was also intrigued by Netflix’s culture of focusing on talent density and its efforts to maintain a dream team to drive its innovative entertainment business.
It’s been also rewarding to see wonderful Korean content making a mark on the global stage; and how our dramas and movies are bringing people together from different cultures. One of the good aspects of being at Netflix is when you’re traveling and people like immigration officers in the U.S. who are known to be quite unfriendly to foreigners, they even ask you, “what is your recommendation”? And I sometimes get a smile out of them. So, that’s been interesting, and you can just really feel that the shows, the dramas, and the emotions that these bring out from people really bring them together.
Jinny Suh: Can’t agree more and as a Korean, it fills me with a lot of pride to see how really local content like Squid Game has become a conversation starter with people around the world. It’s incredible how these very Korean stories can strike a chord with the global audience, transcending all cultural boundaries. Really love that.
Embrace change
We can segue into our next topic, how lawyers can navigate the ever-developing and globally connected world as corporate lawyers. Can you share some insight into the role of legal professionals in driving innovation within corporations, especially compared to the role of private practice attorneys?
Liz Chung: When you join the company, you’re closer to the business; businesses tend to be more progressive and future-looking than law firms. I believe there is a huge role to be played by in-house lawyers in helping businesses drive innovation and seek excellence in whatever industries they are in. Within companies, you always think about how you can move forward, how you can be the first mover, or how you can be better than other companies. Change is almost a constant thing. I think that the phrase that I heard the most since joining in-house is “change is the only constant” and you must embrace and welcome change although change is really, really difficult. I think that a different mindset is important.
Lightning round
Jinny Suh: I totally agree. I wanted to reserve some time for our lightning round. The lightning round is where you just give me a short answer to three questions. These are three questions that focus on this season’s theme of innovation and creativity, and we’re asking these questions to all of our guests. So, don’t think too much, just respond with what pops up in your mind. Okay?
Number one, what have you seen, listened to, or read recently on the topic of innovation or creativity that inspired you and why?
Liz Chung: I think I should go with Netflix content because of where I am, there are so many dramas and shows that show creativity, but I’ll just pick one. Physical 100 is a competition show to find the physically strongest and the fittest person. What I found to be innovative is that the contestants are not only young men and women but from different generations. You have to be strategic, and you have to be innovative to actually win the contest. I really liked that program, and I thought it was quite innovative.
Jinny Suh: Number two, what is a quick-fix strategy that you use when you’re in a slump, if you are ever in a slump?
Liz Chung: I just go to bed and sleep.
Jinny Suh: That’s genius. Yes, sleep. Okay, number three, when I say innovation, what’s the first word that comes to your mind?
Liz Chung: That’s a hard one. I’ll go with the first mover.
Jinny Suh: Thank you so much for sharing your insights and remarkable journey with us today. It’s been an honor having you on the McKinsey Legal Podcast.
Liz Chung: Thank you so much, Jinny. I really enjoyed it.
Zoë Badger: Thank you for listening to this episode of the McKinsey Legal Podcast on dynamic and balanced legal thought partnerships. Join us for the next episode where we explore legal issues on innovation and creativity that matter to you and the world. This episode is a production of the McKinsey Legal Department, was produced and edited by Stephanie Spangler, and co-hosted and written by Jinny Suh. The original music is by David Shaporov.